Get thee to a Lesbian Seperatist Commune, err, Nunnery?

[commodorified]

Oh, Benny The Rat.

Pope Says American Nuns Too Focused On Poor, Not Enough On Gay Bashing.

Also, Commenters Not To Be, from this story

Hey in the US no one is entitles to any maternity leave - count your self lucky.

Thanks, I won't.

Comments

[sage]

Did you see their reply? I've no idea what they're talking about. *g*

[commodorified]

I wonder what the Bishop of Seattle did to bring this down on himself?

[sara]

We are, in fact, entitled to some maternity leave.

Some of us even take it.


Our local RC bishop came down to town from up in Portland last year and told Catholic Charities that they could no longer accept United Way funds to feed homeless vets, because United Way also passes funds to Planned Parenthood. So Catholic Charities figured they had to give up the local government contract to serve the homeless vets.

Mmmkay, said our local St. Vincent de Paul's, we'll feed the vets. And the bishop said, then I will excommunicate you! And the St. Vinnie's guys said, go right ahead. We're pretty sure we're on Jesus' side on this one.

I was entertained.

[sage]

That last line! I hope she's as awesome as she seems!

[muccamukk]

Lines in the Bible about gays: 5 (and they're theologically debatable). Lines in the Bible about helping the poor and hungry: over two thousand.
Yeah.

I don't like this Pope. I don't wish ill on the man, but maybe he could... step down and they could pick someone else?

[emceeaich]

Does anyone listen to the Hierarchy? I mean other than the politicians pandering for votes from conservative evangelicals?

[recessional]

Ratzinger makes me unhappy.

Those nuns make me happy.

That is all.

Waldo, the question is what are you doing out there?

[commodorified]

We are, in fact, entitled to some maternity leave.

Some of us even take it.

I know. I was just ... no, that doesn't make it not an injustice. You should all have more.

Excommunication is starting to strike me as a badge of pride...

[commodorified]

It's a bit hard to miss: We are to love our neighbour and leave the judging to God. No if, and, buts, or special pleading.

[commodorified]

My answer to that is more complex than I want to get into that this time, except to say that being pushed out by your spiritual home is painful and wrenching no matter how evident it may be to you that no other answer is possible.

Re: Waldo, the question is what are you doing out there?

[sara]

Oh, I don't disagree. Few things piss me off as much as the very limited support which the mothers of young children get in this culture. We talk about venerating motherhood and we do absolutely no such thing (unless by "venerate" you mean "get up in ladies' business and tell them how to do everything without offering them any help to do any of it.")

Yeah, in a world where the Church says don't feed the poor, I think not feeding the Church is just fine.

[emceeaich]

I didn't make myself plainer. Let me rephrase:

My impression is that there are plenty of USA-ian Catholics who go to Mass, take Communion, and participate in their Church whilst considering the Hierarchy a bunch of asshats.

Meanwhile, the political group who the Hierarchy seems to be pandering to most popular with are conservative Protestant evangelicals.

[commodorified]

Gotcha. Thanks.

To clarify in return: I am a bit sensitive, maybe a bit oversensitive, to avoiding any sense of kicking Catholicism - as opposed to the heirarchy - when it's down. The Catholics I know are pretty much all Dorothy Day rather than Benny the Rat Catholics, and this stuff causes them enough pain.

[commodorified]

May the Ruler Of Justice sit lightly in their hands.

[staranise]

God be with those women.

[sollers]

How many of those 5 are in the New Testament? "My daughter the theologian" has pointed me to several bit in it that view the Old Testament simply as interesting background reading. I do remember a bit in the Gospels disapproving of widows who remarry, but re gays the only reference she could think of was the centurion whose slave was healed - she said the words he uses in the Greek imply that they are in an affectionate sexual relationship.

[emceeaich]

Thanks.

The attitude of the folks in the Church I see on a daily basis, and I don't think they are a biased sample, is "What are the Bishops smoking?/What planet is Santorum from?"

Now the thing is that it's much more difficult for the Sisters, since they have do have a vow of obedience and if the Hierarchy kicks them out or shuts them down, I don't know what options they have.

In Cynthia's old home parish, the people who got stuff done were the Sisters, and I still put money in the Sister Jean Marie's Pantry jars when I see them, because Cyn and her mom knew Sister Jean Marie, and think she embodied what was good and right with the Church.

[trolleypup]

I think choosing the side of the angels is pretty easy here.

[cynthia1960]

For the nth umpty-upth time, let me chant in full Gregorian splendor, "The Hierarchy Can Bite My Shiny Metal Feminist Ass". Amen.

[cynthia1960]

Sr. John Marie should call down a air strike on the Bishops from on high.

[emceeaich]

And s/Jean/John/g in the comment above. I keep thinking of her as "Jean Marie" instead of "John Marie." Given the former is nearly my Mom's given names.

[cynthia1960]

Unless the Sisters get a chance to smite the hierarchy, then they should swing for the fences!

[lizbee]

Growing up in a conservative Catholic family, I was always aware that Dad didn't quite trust nuns. The ones who ran the aged care facilities near our home were fine, but he was deeply suspicious of nuns in educational roles. They might teach us some kind of hippy liberal doctrine about loving others, or promote feminism, and they were probably all secretly lesbians. The only thing he could imagine that would be worse was sending his children to state schools -- where we ended up eventually anyway.

TL;DR, I've always admired people who stand up to the Catholic hierarchy in the name of social justice and doing what's right; and I really regret the hierarchy these days makes Dad look liberal; and I do enjoy telling people about the thorough and excellent sex ed I got from the nuns when I was 13.

[muccamukk]

There's nothing in the Gospels (other than the part you mention, which is ambiguous). Here's a pamphlet of Jesus's complete teachings on homosexuality.

There's a couple of mentions in Paul's letters, which I've seen argued various ways. Romans seems to be the one that comes up most.

This site has a nice overview of the clobber verses.

[nineveh_uk]

I had never thought of the surrogacy loophole before, despite having to do with the various sorts of family leave in the day job. Presumably the legislators didn't either, or did and hoped it would just go away (legislators, that never happens). It ought to be closed, and it will be interesting to see how it is, but it does present some challenges not least because of the non-binding nature of surrogacy agreements in the UK and the required period before there can be a parenting order*. I wouldn't expect it to be an extension of maternity leave rights**, but through a specific development of existing adoption leave and parental leave rights, the first of which in particular closely echoes the basic maternity leave pattern. Off the top of my head as a layperson, if I were looking for a quick fix to the law, then an extension of statutory parental leave for a biological father caring full-time for a child carried by a surrogate mother looks the most straightforward option (as well as promoting gender equality in parenthood!), though that would still leave cases where the father wasn't named on the birth certificate, so a complete solution would still be needed. I wonder if any of the Scandinavian countries have worked it out?

/thinking aloud imagining someone walking into the office about this.

*I would also imagine they would have to consider if it should just be leave to care for surrogate babies. If statutory leave for surrogacy without adoption, how do you legally justify not giving leave for infants in family fostering from birth? Maybe there should be leave for people in the latter situation as well, but I doubt it would be as popular with the Telegraph.

**Which are about the pregnancy as much as caring for the baby. And surely giving parental leave rights only to female parents of a baby carried through surrogacy would be open to a charge of sex discrimination against men.