A question which just occurred to me

[commodorified]

I am enthusiastically in favour of addressing people as they wish to be addressed, and referring to them by the pronouns, etc, that they prefer, or, if lacking data, using 'they'.

And there has, thankfully, been a lot of discussion of the matter to help me get this right.

So now I am wondering about formal modes of address for general and specific addressing of people whose genders are non-binary.

staranise sensibly points out that when addressing groups, "Honoured Guests" may reasonably be used along with, or instead of, "Ladies and Gentlemen/Mesdames et Messieurs". (ETA anne adds "Amis Distingués")

Suitable substitutes for "Sir", "Madam" "Ma'am", "Mr." "Ms", "M.", "Mmme", and so forth, however, elude me.

Has anyone seen anything good on this?

Comments

[anne]

I don't think there's a default yet, so asking individuals what they prefer still seems like the way to go.

(I'd like to add "ami(e)s distingué(e)s" to go with "honoured guests," BTW. I'm pretty sure I'm not just making it up?)

[niqaeli]

I've yet to figure any good ones out, something that drove me up the WALL when I was working hotel front desk. I wanted neutral ways to politely address people and they eluded me utterly.

The closest I've found is, if they've a profession, you can sometimes go with that as a form of address. The obvious examples are doctor and reverend/pastor, but it works for some others as well. Like, with teachers (particularly at university but in most contexts it won't read too weird): Professor [Surname] is an excellent way to go. (It also neatly side-steps the PhD/Dr. issue if you're unsure of they have obtained a doctorate or not!) Coach and chef are also very natural. It's by no means always usable even with professions that are natural for it, because context -- but it IS helpful.

That said, I have seen Mx. used in print as a neutral address, but I suspect it would read very unnaturally to attempt to use it in spoken conversation.

So yeah, Imma track this sucker to see if anyone has better suggestions because seriously. DROVE. ME. NUTS. I did not want to have to blithely assume a gender for people to politely address them but basically that's what it seemed to come down to.

(When making reservations? I always defaulted to MM. as opposed to MR. or MS.; while technically it expands to 'MR. and MRS.' functionally nobody else at the organisation knew that that's what it stood for making it the most visually neutral option we had, barring 'DR.')

[wordweaverlynn]

"Kaiet" — used in fiction by Janet Ganus, as part of the pronoun set kai, kaim, kais, kaiself; Also, "Kaieti" for Gentlemen/Ladies.

Found the link at the Gender-Neutral Pronoun blog.

[malka]

Singular is hard. The closest I've come is using "Excuse me" as an address when talking to strangers. (Instead of "Ma'am/sir, you dropped your hat," it's "Excuse me, you dropped your hat." It's a little more impersonal, but still reasonably polite.)

Two more options for addressing groups: "colleagues" (in a professional or semi-professional context) and "folks" (in informal or semi-formal contexts).

[sollers]

There is an underlying problem with all the forms of address, which may in any case need to be addressed: they all carry the message "You are my social superior". Surely there must be a way we can develop of being polite to someone without grovelling.

[thnidu]

I sometimes use "Gentlebeings". Forget where I picked it up. – Or "Gentlefolk", of course.

I don't think of it as speaking to superiors, but as courteous speech. I use "Sir", "Ma'am", "Miss" all the time (of course these are gendered), just for moving in a crowded place, like on the sidewalk (I walk pretty fast) or on public transit. "Excuse me, sir... pardon me, ma'am." It's part of not tring to shove my way through. Giving respect gains respect, and everyone's more comfortable.

[nishatalitha]

I am now asking a friend of mine who is non-binary; they haven't told me what they'd like. I have linked them to your post.

...sometimes, I'd really like different singular/plural they and you.

[wildeabandon]

Most of the genderqueer people I know use Mx, and pronounce it 'mix'.

[castiron]

In email, when I'm not sure what form of address to use, I tend to use "Greetings" unless I've corresponded with someone often enough to be able to use "Dear Firstname".

[amazon_syren]

Good to know about the "Mix".

At VoV, we used "Ladies, Gentlemen, and Rogues" when addressing the audience, but that was a fairly informal and activisty setting where "rogues" was more likley to be taken as "you people who are radically being yourselves in the face of a binarily-gendered system, rawr" as opposed to something like "you weirdos, I am mocking you". So it probably wouldn't work everywhere.

I think "Good evening to all of our honoured guests/deligates/etc" or similar, without even throwing "ladies and gentlemen" in there would work nicely.

A couple of union types at the RHO conference, on Friday, were talking about how "brother and sister" doesn't work so well, but if you want to keep things familial, you could go with "cousin", and commenting that "cousin" had the added bonus of "you can fuck your cousin... your siblings, not so much". Which is a whole other discussion, but there you go.

Gentlebeings or Gentles

[james_g4clf]

I like gentlebeings, it's been used by Anne McCaffrey (in one of the Brain Ships novels), Larry Niven (Fallen Angels), Alan Dean Foster (Flinx books), Gordon Dickson (Hokas Pokas), Keith Laumer (Odyssey), Doohan & Stirling (The Privateer), John Ringo (There Will be Dragons) and Poul Anderson (Flandry) to name but a few SF authors. But "Gentles", which I also like, might be more acceptable to non-fen for its Shakespearean antecedents (Henry IV & V, Midsummer Night's Dream, & Taming of the Shrew).

[indywind]

Polite substitutes for plural gendered honorifics abound. Generally, one may address a group by any of its other characteristics (which are generally more relevant than gender, anyway, and even some binary-identified folks may appreciate having courtesy shown where it is due, rather than to their gender).

This sort of works for singular too: address a person by their profession ("coach" etc.), relationship ("friend") or role "host", "prospective contributor"), perhaps with an additional gender-neutral respectful descriptive, such as Respected, Honored, Esteemed... sometimes also Elder/Senior, Gentle, Dear, etc. Sometimes these may be used on their own, or with the addressee's forename or surname instead.

Thus constructions like, "Honored guest, may I ask how you would prefer to be addressed?" or "To Xianpeng Wang, address, etc.: Respected client, we regret to inform you that your account is overdue..." or "Esteemed colleagues, allow me to present the chairperson of our meeting, Jan Kuyper. Chair[person] Kuyper has earned postgraduate degrees in both the US And the UK..."

I personally do not like any of the presently recognized gendered honorifics and I'm not elligible for any of the commonly recognized ones like Dr., Reverend, etc. I give a pass where I have no option for feedback (forms and form letters), but when I'm directly addressed by people who insist on gendered honorific, instead of my name or a non-gender specific form of address, I will tell them to use the other one than whichever they decide to impose(*). They might as well share the discomfort if they insist on making things awkward.

(*People who insist on gendering me against my preference often seem to pic the least applicable end of the binary... what a coincidence.)